You are spouting dangerous nonsense. The data is overwhelming, and every death that could have been avoided, of which many are documented on social media is a tragedy.
They probably should legalize, control and de-crime-cartel the illegal cocaine industry, it would lead to better outcomes than the war on drugs. Less death, less negative medical outcomes, less load on the health system directly and indirectly through less criminal violence.
I wish so much to label OP as simple bored troll, since its so glaringly wrong on so many fronts. Then you go out in the woods (doesn't have to be literal backcountry trip) and you actually meet this kind of people who think like that.
And you see some have pretty respectable jobs and are actual part of society, not some outcasts hiding with tin foils in corn field. Any society in this world in some way. But you can't talk to them about simple, factual matters. Forget persuasion, even discussion is all but impossible.
I'm not denying that the vaccine is useful, but statistically it's _only_ beneficial to older people.
> They probably should legalize, control and de-crime-cartel the illegal cocaine industry
If the conversation goes as far as legalizing cocaine, then there is absolutely nothing to discuss. Cocaine is a highly addictive drug and I just can't express enough how many lives it took away.
> You are living in the 1950s or something.
I was born in 80s, there is no way I can live in 50s.
> At 20-something he switched to pills, a few more years later - heroine.
As someone who never used marijuana, used to be strongly against it but now think we should consider legalizing it[1], isn't a major reason for this that because of laws against marijuana anyone buying it has to establish relationships with illegal drug dealers?
Wouldn't this be much less of a problem if marijuana was sold over the counter in a pharmacy?
PS: I had a good friend die of heroine. I too care about this stuff too even if I (now) approach it from the other side.
In which sense? Weed has massive margins. Legalization means less competition, lower prices. It will simplify the process of selling, but nobody's in this "business" just for fun. They want to make money.
Legalization will indeed raise the gov's budgets due to taxation.
> Wouldn't this be much less of a problem if marijuana was sold over the counter in a pharmacy?
No. When a substance is allowed for everyone, but someone (eg school students), then it's even a bigger problem. Marijuana usage in public US schools is a massive problem. Teens find ways to buy and sell the drug. Legal marijuana will only worsen their fragile brains. It's a cultural problem, after all.
> How do you define uselessness? What's the metric?
Despite the billions we have poured into fighting illegal drugs across all western countries they are sold nore or less openly a few hundred meters from here.
> Legalization means less competition, lower prices. It will simplify the process of selling, but nobody's in this "business" just for fun. They want to make money.
Exactly.
Organized crime has massive overheads (bribes, protection, losses due to raids, probably more).
The moment someone starts selling at pharmacies their illegal marijuana market collapses even if government adds a fair tax on it like many governments do with tobacco and ethanol.
> No. When a substance is allowed for everyone, but someone (eg school students), then it's even a bigger problem. Marijuana usage in public US schools is a massive problem. Teens find ways to buy and sell the drug.
All this holds true for ethanol as well and yet all western countries realized almost a century ago that the attempted cure was worse than the disease.
We still deal with people abusing it to the point were it hurts their families, themselves and society but at least deaths due to methanol poisonings are down and there's one less lucrative market for criminals to tap into.
I'm not saying this is easy.
But after being a supporter of though-on-drugs policies for 20 years (since I was 15 and formed my first such opinions) I have changed my views.
Not because I wanted more people to get stoned or because I want it myself but because I cannot see any good end in sight.
Yes this is the truth its not a Gateway drug but you have to buy it where other drugs also are sold, sometimes they might not have weed and you try a pill instead. If we are going the illegal road then ciggarettes coffee and alcohol also gotta go, but come on let people have some fin ffs
I hate dealing with dealers but there is no other way to get weed. Shady dark corners, pushy paranoid characters, just to buy a bit of herb that grows wildly on slopes of himalaya for millenia.
Once dealer tried to push cocaine to me instead of weed pretending he didn't understand, sent him away. That's the only gateway situation I can actually imagine for weed, otherwise its nonsense in same vein as alcohol is.
so… your brother in law used opiates for 14 years until he overdosed on heroin, and you’re blaming weed? I’d say a family that didn’t help him successfully overcome his 14 year addiction is a more plausibly causal relationship, which is also absurd to suggest.
I'm not even pro cannabis - I recently decided to go completely cold turkey since I realised I was essentially self medicating for other deeper issues and cannabis just gives me brain fog - but I think your comment is pretty nonsensical.
If your brother in law transitioned from marijuana all the way to heroine, chances are his drug abuse was a symptom of deeper underlying problems, not the cause. The solution is education, not criminalisation.
You can't legalize marijuana while education is subpar. It has to be done the opposite way. Also, why to legalize something that is harmful to your body and brain [1]? I mean, there are SO many publications about it.
Easy to justify that one: the amount of deaths prevented from gang crime attributable to cannabis trade would far outstrip any potential harm caused by legalisation.
Besides, that's not a good way to look at it. The better question is why criminalise an activity that does no harm to others?
> There are a lot of professional workers that are on cocaine, business owners, successful artists, etc. Does that mean cocaine should be legalized? Absolutely not.
I think you are very wrong. I think there should be safeguards such as improper commercial storage should be unlawful. Similarly, distribution (sale) to minors and without proper packaging should remain against the law. However, I find no logic in trying to ban any substance from an informed consumer in a world where alcohol and tobacco are legal.
> In contrast, the majority of anti-vaxxers (not the crazy ones talking about microchips) ended up being more or less right with their decision.
I think they are idiots. As far as I know we don’t have any deaths because of the vaccine. It is safe. Maybe it could be more effective and I’m sure we will have better vaccines with time but there is no reason to not take the vaccine now and a better vaccine when it is available later.
> Similarly, distribution (sale) to minors and without proper packaging should remain against the law.
That will only worsen the situation in the US public schools, which is already a massive problem. If a substance is allowed to your dad, why can't you buy a bit from your classmate Joe?
> However, I find no logic in trying to ban any substance from an informed consumer in a world where alcohol and tobacco are legal.
That is a separate problem. Let's not put them all in the same bucket. There is no need to minimize the importance of what I said by bringing up other problems. Let's focus on marijuana.
> I think they are idiots. As far as I know we don’t have any deaths because of the vaccine.
Older people - yes. Younger people - no. Check the stats, as well as the side effects probabilities. They are so low that there is no reason to compare. That is EXACTLY why CDC wants to go the natural immunity route now.
> The smell of marijuana is the worst. It spreads like cancer and you can smell it blocks away
It is relative. Pollution also smells bad and so does cigarette smoke. I don't understand this argument at all because there are different methods for consumption. How about we ban farms since they smell.
> Uneducated people start from marijuana and then look for other "fun" things to smoke
No they don't. You are just equating a bad personal experience and they stereotyping everyone based off it. Marijuana is not a gateway drug. However, people being poor and impoverished without adequate help and services often use drugs.
I actually agree on the vaccine comments for the most part but think the rest has little evidence to support, unless you're talking about Reagan science and the D.A.R.E. propaganda about marijuana making your balls shrivel up. If you don't trust your government with mandates then maybe try reevaluating your perception on marijuana. Take a trip to Colorado and try it out if you don't have an underlying mental illness and if you turn into an asshole while you're high then you were most likely one beforehand.
> Yes, I do believe it should or at least decriminalized. There is much more danger in illegal drug trade and a dysfunctional uneducated society.
Once again, similar to what I said to the other commenter. Fix the uneducated society first. There are much more uneducated weed smokers than educated ones.
> Not any recent ones unless you're talking about youth. There are studies that show marijuana can improve brain function and capacity.
Erm... I'm a HN reader for 8+ years. There are a handful number of research papers reach the front page several times a year.
THC is able to alter the functioning of the hippocampus (see "Marijuana, Memory, and the Hippocampus") and orbitofrontal cortex, brain areas that enable a person to form new memories and shift his or her attentional focus. As a result, using marijuana causes impaired thinking and interferes with a person’s ability to learn and perform complicated tasks. THC also disrupts functioning of the cerebellum and basal ganglia, brain areas that regulate balance, posture, coordination, and reaction time. [0]
Marijuana has been even linked to schizophrenia development [1]. Let's for sure legalize it.
