Still not entirely certain this isn't just a really impressive parody, but for my sanity I am hoping it is.
I think this says a lot about the "attention economy" way all the various dating and social apps take up your time to use them, and how we've digitized the process so much that people unironically see the appeal of a CRM system for managing contacts. Classic case of "new tech to solve the problems of all the other tech", where the other tech is actually the source of the problem, and probably shouldn't be relied on in this way.
I am sure it is not a parody. I have witnessed co-workers getting professional photographs and using spreadsheets to track dates/matches, all to carefully optimize their dating app success.
It reminds me of the early 2000s "pick up artist" stuff, I had a few friends who read the books and would actively hit on women anytime we went out. It was horrible haha.
As for the maker of this app, if it fills a need and gets widely adopted who knows?
>It reminds me of the early 2000s "pick up artist" stuff, I had a few friends who read the books and would actively hit on women anytime we went out. It was horrible haha.
In the early 2000s only "professionals" used CAD. Now (almost) everyone with a 3d printer or a shed they want to build uses CAD. It's trickled down.
The pickup artists are on the bleeding edge of the "craft" if you can call it that. It shouldn't be surprising that the stuff they do (or at least the stuff that works) filters down.
> The pickup artists are on the bleeding edge of the "craft" if you can call it that. It shouldn't be surprising that the stuff they do (or at least the stuff that works) filters down.
I had a friend who used the "craft" and had enough success with it that he was utterly convinced he could get literally any woman to sleep with him. He failed to notice that all of his "marks" could be grouped into roughly two sets of women:
- Those who were unaware of the game being played. They were highly insecure and not intelligent or not socially aware enough to realize they were being manipulated.
- Those who were aware of the game, and were playing it themselves. They were consciously looking to get laid, and they would sit in judgement of their suitors, sleeping with whoever could navigate their "shit tests" and put on an impressive enough performance. An odd sort of "game recognizes game" fencing match.
Personally I thought these performances were an embarrassing dog-and-pony show, but there's no accounting for taste.
Anyway, my point is that some of this stuff really does "work", but it's not nearly as universal as its practitioners like to believe, and the men who practice it are often being gamed themselves. Anyone who is aware of the game (even subconsciously) and not interested in playing it is immune.
> The pickup artists are on the bleeding edge of the "craft" if you can call it that.
A lot of people are picking up on how PUA types are actually annoying grifters who think bullying women is flirting, or even that some forms of PUA are actually blatantly sociopathic.
A lot of them are pretending like they have some special insight beyond the fact that they a.) are conventionally mostly attractive b.) are at least a tiny bit charismatic c.) had enough self-confidence to try doing literally anything at all.
I hate having to deal with the aftermath of endless men approaching me at random who think "being an asshole" is flirting. It's so annoying.
I have some sympathy for the dating problems of women but I have less than zero sympathy for the dating problems of any woman who is young/attractive enough to be hit on when out and about. You are the seller of what is fundamentally a scarce resource. To the other ~80% of society (i.e. basically all men as well as the large fraction of women) this just comes across as a first world problem.
>even that some forms of PUA are actually blatantly sociopathic.
It of says a lot, and none of it good, that adopting sociopath behaviors and then spray and praying them is an effective way for men to keep the big end of the sales funnel full.
>A lot of them are pretending like they have some special insight beyond the fact that they a.) are conventionally mostly attractive b.) are at least a tiny bit charismatic c.) had enough self-confidence to try doing literally anything at all.
The pool of women that will entertain the idea of sleeping with any given man is small. The pool of men that will sleep with any given women is large. Women don't need to put any effort into identifying this pool. Men do, that's what all this spray and pray PUA crap is about. Men need to identify this pool before expending any filtration effort on other criteria. And at the other end of the funnel pool of women any given man is compatible enough with is large. Women have a much smaller pool of men they're compatible enough with so they try to filter by this first, much to the chagrin of every man who has to deal with it (the same way you're annoyed by getting hit on by men you're not interested in).
Oh, and I hope you noticed the perverse incentive for both men and women to fudge the things that are under their control in order to pass the filter of people who are otherwise out of their league or incompatible...
I’ve done that spreadsheet thing for a year or so, around 15 years ago when I just had started using online dating sites (which where different back then, and non-algorithmic)
I really hope it is because I get maybe 1 person every 8 months to write back so if the average person has so many dates they need an app to track them all that's just seriously depressing that I'm so far off the norm.
I had the same problem as you. I had the same reaction to this post. It sucks man. Dating apps were not good for my mental health, so I got off them before I could become a bitter person.
I eventually found a gf outside of the apps, entirely by chance. I still do not see how I could’ve found her aside from pure random chance, so unfortunately that doesn’t help you at all.
The more you put yourself in social settings (online, offline, whatever), the more you increase the surface area for finding someone through "pure random chance". Just adding a more optimistic bent to things.
Exactly, dating apps are just one tool in the toolbox, and one that doesn't work well for a lot of people at that (in my experience, the types of people that I would be interested in dating generally aren't on dating apps, so I stopped using them.)
The trick is to find out where you're likely to meet the types of people you are interested in: interest groups, college campus, gaming Discords, climbing gym, etc. I think in dating, diversification is key, because the types of people you will find in any given environment can be highly autocorrelated in terms of preferences and personality.
The other trick is to actually flirt with people when you like someone. A minority of people might not take it well, but it actually brightens a lot of people's days when done respectfully and it's the only way to have a chance at getting somewhere.
You’re right. As a hetero man, I was not doing activities that included many women. But I still don’t know what I could’ve done differently, because doing activities involving women that I don’t enjoy, so that I can be on the lookout for potential dates… doesn’t seem very enjoyable, and also seems a bit creepy. On the other hand, going to activities I don’t enjoy and not looking for dates seems rather pointless.
You’re always going to be seen as creepy until some woman doesn’t. That’s just the norms we have in society right now. You’re a threat until proven otherwise.
Most social activities that involve strangers are also full of men. This is because most men aren’t interested in going out and meeting new people they have no social connection with. Women go to parties, outings with other friends, etc. Men go to things alone like bars, clubs, gyms, sports, etc. to meet new people and bond with absolutely complete strangers. Most women don’t do this at all.
I did that. I had plenty of friends, but no girlfriends ;)
I realized that increasing the surface area mostly only matters if you’re increasing the surface area of meeting the kind of person you want to date. As a hetero man, I was not doing activities that included many women. But I still don’t know what I could’ve done differently, because doing activities involving women that I don’t enjoy, so that I can be on the lookout for potential dates… doesn’t seem very enjoyable, and also seems a bit creepy. On the other hand, going to activities I don’t enjoy and not looking for dates seems rather pointless.
That's the key. You need to get more random chances by doing more things that get you to interact with other people.
Well, that and optimize your attractiveness as best you are able. That can take a large variety of forms depending on your target audience and who you want to be personally.
The problem is almost certainly that your profile is bad. I'm happy to provide feedback, or you can check out some of the subreddits where people provide tips.
The truth is that most men get nothing from dating services. It’s only the top few percent of men who are getting substantial attention. Even then - of the friends I know who are getting some attention, they say it’s a huge mental drain because they have to be a jester to entertain so many women in order to get anywhere. These are above average men but not very good looking men. The good looking men don’t even have to try - the mental effort is low.
All the websites I'm aware of have app counterparts now. I suspect he's talking about the ones that didn't start off as apps and allow more detailed profiles, like Match and EHarmony. And yes, they're pretty much dead. Match is somewhat viable but far less active than it was five years ago. EHarmony is extremely expensive and almost completely dead. There are maybe a dozen new sign ups per day in my entire state, and most of the profiles are dead and can't see or send messages because people balked when they saw the price, which isn't shown until you complete the (rather lengthy) personality questionnaire.
On top of all that, they're all slowly changing to the swipe mechanics of Tinder and the like. Personally I hate that model, but apparently it's "won".
I think this says a lot about the "attention economy" way all the various dating and social apps take up your time to use them, and how we've digitized the process so much that people unironically see the appeal of a CRM system for managing contacts. Classic case of "new tech to solve the problems of all the other tech", where the other tech is actually the source of the problem, and probably shouldn't be relied on in this way.