M5 is based on ESP32 so it is microcontroller based so you are limited to things a MCU can do. But yea I love the M5 platform, funnily I am here at CES and met the Founder of M5 just yesterday!
That looks pretty interesting, do you happen to have any first hand experience with this? In my experience, platforms like this live and die by the pain of unhandled edge cases, so even if the happy path works fine, it can still be something to avoid.
I've released projects based on M5Stack. Not much to say: it does what it claims. Getting the right software libraries in place is a minor pain, but all in all it's pretty straightforward as far as embedded development goes.
GP points to the home page, so I don't know which of the very many devices was being referred to. My experience is with M5Stack Tough and I recommend it.
It is an ESP32 with reasonably off the shelf components so for hobbyist purposes I think the concern is minimal. Obviously because it’s an ESP32 you can’t expect to run Linux on it.
At the expense of more software dev and a bluetooth module, It would've been more extensible and versatile if it had just used BT for input (HID) and GPIO rather than creating yet another proprietary connector and forbidding the use of GPIO and a keyboard simultaneously. Why not integrate the most popular one and use BT for the rest? Great, we've re-invented what already exists. Sigh.
From the looks of it you can still use your Bluetooth keyboard as it is with the Linux bluetooth stack, except you have to figure out a way to power it .. yet another battery?
I think you can just create another module that'll split the gpio to keypad and other purposes as it is just a USB keypad..
Having a micro sized detachable BT keyboard would be amazing, but it would still need to charge somehow.
It seems like the whole point is that it's one integrated piece you can slip in a pocket, not a collection of hacker gadgets with separate chargers and USB cables you have to be careful about.
Build-in either a keyboard or the gamepad. I have BT mice, keyboards, gamepads, and other things that already handle how they charge (USB-C).
But it's not a single thing if you're carrying around other parts anyhow, and those appear kind of flimsy. And I already have a general purpose computing device with networking capability that goes in my pocket, a smartphone... so why would I want to put it my pocket if it does less?
You might want a dedicated device to control some lights or scan some barcodes that you can hand off without handing off the most expensive thing you own, that unlocks almost every piece of personal data you have.
A built in keyboard could be a failure point, and gamepads are well known to fail. I'd trust five layers of frameworks and thousands of lines of code more than a cheap switch.
If they really wanted maximum reliability, I would prefer they charge the keypad with NFC and talk to it over either BLE or just the NFC itself.
Be sure to put those connectors through adequate stress testing. I’ve had several products that use a similar design (Garmin watch, Bluetooth headset) and I’ve been disappointed to find that the connector wears out with time.
Founder here, thank you for this note we will build a jig to test this out and share results on our docs. One of the things we have done to reduce wear over time is that the spring contact is on the device and we expose a very small contact surface from the housing. Check this - https://ibb.co/xqm3z3W
On Garmin watches the springy mechanical part is on the cable, not the watch. Have you observed the watch itself wearing out? I would hope it's designed such that the cable is sacrificial and the watch lasts. In the product here the springs appear to be on the device side, which seems to me like the bit that would be more likely to wear out. That's concerning, but there's more chance of being to able to replace it than in something tiny like a watch.
Founder here, the reason to not put spring contacts on extensions is to make it easy for anyone to make extensions by just exposing solder contacts or hand soldering small discs. But we will evaluate more on the endurance part and take a call on this, we are still pre-production right now.
The Magsafe connector on Apple laptops has pogo pins on the cable, plus a magnet to hold them on. I've had machines of all 3 generations. They have mostly been reliable, controlled for the number of cycles. But I have seen the laptop get worn down, and the pins eventually became unreliable on old laptops.
I don't know how that holds up against USB or the previous weird barrel jack thing they used. Magsafe is far more visible than the others.
Reminds me of the unrepairable, craptastic design of FitBits charging connectors that would fail just about the time the warranty expired and the tech support "solution" was to "buy a new one".
At least on Apple and similar with inductive charging designs, there's nothing to break. (Repairability of the rest of it, notwithstanding.)
That’s a correct assessment of the situation, but the lifetime of the cables is not satisfactory with my expectations. I do eventually buy a new cable every six months, but I really just wish there was a USB-C port with a rubber plug in it.
Pogo pins should handle tons of connections yes. At work we used these for board testing through test points ("bed of nails") and i never heard of the pogo pins wearing out.
These were pretty long pogo pins though. They wouldn't fit in this thing.
And if flimsy parts and design-for-manufacturing rather than design-for-repair aren't done intentionally to increase sales through replacements and/or to optimize for minimal cost, then it's done through negligence.
Tangential: I'm looking for a handheld Linux computer that's the approximate size and shape of a GameBoy Advance SP, but with a QWERTY keyboard and wifi. The old Zipit Z-2 would've been perfect. All it needs to run is git and Emacs/org-mode.
It's a surprisingly hard form factor to shop for—anyone have any recommendations?
I’d also love to find out, I’m also on the lookout for a similar device. What I have found are SBCs on r/SBCgaming offering rock chip ARM Linux devices for under $50-100. Iirc http://retrocatalog.com/ is good for searching.
I have a Planet Computers Gemini, which is a reinterpretation of the Psion Series 5, running Android but you can also install Linux. They have new models since, but I've heard reports the company is not honoring orders, so caveat emptor.
Another option would be one of the GPD Pocket mini-laptops, they actually ship with Ubuntu. I'd gotten one of the older models, but the screen was just too small for my tired eyes:
https://www.gpd.hk/gpdpocket/
Updating the software is certainly a pain. I switched to Linux than went back to Android. Can't say I noticed any hardware defects other than the usual delicateness of mobile devices, but I am generally careful with my devices (the only person I know who doesn't fray Apple's inadequate cales...), so it hasn't mattered as much as the simple fact the Gemini doesn't have a lot of utility with my aging eyes. I really need at least 12".
I’ve been looking for this too. I could replace basically all my laptop computing with something low powered that sshed into a server. So far I’ve found:
My portable Org mode setup is read-only, and I'm very happy with it. I just copy the files from my desktop to ~/Documents/Notes on the Android device an us Orgro (Orgzly or Organice) to read them.
If I do need to record something on the go I make a voice note and update the Org mode file at home on the desktop. I then push to the phone with adb, or pull from the phone with scp in Termux.
Not sure why I would want a handheld computer. But I still need a phone (calling, SMS) occasionally. So I use that also for browsing and messaging, too. GNU/Linux would be a great plus. What are my realistic alternatives? Realistic meaning not a huge amount of work and/or unreliable/buggy system.
If you just want calling, sms, browsing and messaging, and some amount of GNU/Linux, your main options are:
1) Any officially supported sailfish OS device ( https://shop.jolla.com/ - which includes their licensed and officially blessed version for older sony xperia services)
Would be very stable... And good enough for daily use..
But honestly even degoogled Android on a well supported phone like Pixel + Termux is fairly good enough to use these days. I don't see the value of running desktop Linux software on these devices anymore...
A phone with Termux recently had the USB port go bust. I could neither charge it nor use ADB to back it up. But I was able to SSH into my desktop and back up the important files (voice notes, photos) via scp with the clock ticking at 3% charge and dropping. Very impressive and honestly being able to install ncdu on the phone to quickly find large, important files was a revelation in the usability of both bash and Android.
Termux is a game changer for any power user out there.
I would still like a dedicated handheld Linux device (case in point Gemini PDA) simple because it's neat. GPD MicroPC is still one of my favorite machines in my gadget drawer, but it still has "portable PC" vibes, not "tinkering/hacking device" ones.
Maybe I'm just trying to justify spending more money on neat hardware.
Yeah, I have installed Termux. And learned to hard way that you need to install extra packages e.g. to access the clipboard.
I also read something about some turmoil in the community with unmaintained packages or what it was. Yet more time needed to really understand the situation.
> I don't see the value of running desktop Linux software on these devices anymore...
Running desktop software, not really, but I see 3 main points of interest for an alternative to Android (which could be mobile Linux):
- Getting rid of the proprietary bits, in particular userspace drivers (which could be achievable with some degoogled Android running a mainline Linux kernel too)
- Getting rid of Google's control over the platform's main distribution channel for apps, and on the overall design of the platform. Let's remind that Google makes money with ads and the design of Android is likely guided by this. Let's also remind that Google is letting key AOSP apps die (AOSP keyboard, the phone app, the SMS/MMS app, the calendar app).
- Getting rid of having to build apps using the Android SDK, which is huge, bloated, and requires you to accept Google terms and conditions
1) Yes, I am a Sailfish user. I have been quite happy with the older generation hardware up to Xperia X. From what I read the newer generations have been more problematic. Yeah, after having skipped some I ordered the bleeding edge Reeder and was bitten by the disk encryption bug. Have been busy recently, should finally check what is the repair situation for that...
Android: After my Xpdria X HW got unusable as a daily phone I have used Android (mostly without Google). But general administration seems to be a lot of work a lot to learn. In GNU/Linux I know what to do without any extra effort. Time is limited...
I for one am seeing the future of desktop PCs to be fully in the handheld space and the desktop part becoming obsolete.
The current gen handheld AMD APUs are super fast. All that’s needed is one external PCIe 5 connector so you can plug in a GPU when you are at home and you can have a PC with a 6 TB SSD, 64 GB RAM and a 16 core CPU in your pocket at all times while on the go.
Looks really cool, but I'll remain sceptic until it's launched and I see reviews. It stands and falls with the reliability and endurance of those connections, and that's not something we can see on a kickstarter.
If I turn it on, can I resume working on my script or taking notes, or do I have to sometimes start with debugging the keyboard driver with a touch screen?
(I am burned a bit by pinephone and co. who never evolved beyond tinker toy)
A53 is an antique in-order core whose pipeline cannot even handle two multiplies in a row. 1.8GHz is also rather slow. I caution anyone from expecting this thing to perform in any sane fashion if running modern bloated code. It would probably collapse under the pile of JavaScript that is the modern web, if you attempted to run chromium.
Video is accelerated and works fine. Google maps is useable (I just tested it) but not great. It's not too much worse than it is on my MUCH faster M3 Macbook, though. I think I just don't like Google maps. Apple maps works better on both devices.
I'm not going to pretend it's not a comparatively slow computer, but the most it really affects is application launch. Starting Firefox or Chrome is pretty bad: five to ten seconds. Once it's launched, however, it's mostly fine.
The Allen Key (a.k.a Hex Key) stored within the device itself is (marketing) genius--that to my surprise doesn't seem to feature very prominently in their marketing... :D
(Perhaps because the audience to which such a thing seems to be marketing genius isn't their current desired target? :) )
From my perspective the interior Allen Key: immediately acts as a point of uniqueness; communicates something very specific about the product; and, potentially, serves to calibrate potential customer expectations.
(Exactly what the "very specific" thing communicated is, is obviously open to interpretation: it could be "the enclosed Allen Key means this device requires tinkering"; or, alternatively, "the enclosed Allen Key means I don't have to tinker with this device but that is an option available to me".)
The Comet is the most interesting thing I've seen come out of CES this week.
I'd heard of neither the product nor the company before I watched these videos (in this order):
In the first two videos the company founder does a really good job of demonstrating/explaining device features, describing some of the context for the product; and, the motivation behind particular implementation details (e.g. using an NXP processor due to an absence of NDA requirements & their reputation for upstreaming Linux kernel patches).
On the software side, they are using Rust for development of various elements of the device OS/GUI (a detail that might be of interest to some people) including a toolkit for Wayland clients (a detail that might be of interest to some other people :) ). (And they appear to be doing a significant amount of software development "in the open", based on a brief look at the level of activity in various repos/branches.)
However, particularly while watching the first video there was a nagging feeling of "Hmmm, does this all sound a bit too good to be true?" (partly for specific reasons e.g. an impending Kickstarter campaign launch; and, partly just from a general sense of "there's always some reason why we can't have nice things" :) ).
The founder did specify that (as I understand it) they aren't dependent on the Kickstarter for funding of manufacturing; and, that part of the reason the KS campaign wouldn't launch for couple of months was that they wanted to minimise the time between people's support & receipt of their campaign "reward" device.
(Obviously have to take the founder's word on that; and, also, plans don't always go according to... plan.)
Perhaps, amusingly, after spending some time exploring the Mecha web site & source repos, discovering development had been underway for around three years, and, getting a bit more insight into what the company's overall plan seemed to be, I started to wonder "Is this starting to seem too slick? How has this been funded so far & what is the monetization plan going forward?". :D
On the positive side--from a company financial sustainability point of view--it seems The Comet isn't a one-off "pie in the sky tinkering toy for Linux nerds" (nonpejorative :) ) but more of a combination proving-ground/audience-attractor/development-kit for a series of more industrial/enterprise-focused boards & services that serve as a platform for people/companies building custom sensor-orientated device solutions.
On the potentially negative side--from a "is some big company going to acquire Mecha and take away our toy" point of view--well, the same information is also true. :)
However, assuming that Mecha delivers on its stated intent around Open Source (which seems like it might be off to a reasonable start based on a brief look at its current repos), before any such acquisition might happen then such an eventuality would be "unfortunate" but not an immediate death knell for existing units in people's hands.
Having said all that:
The Comet definitely seems like an intriguing device with interesting potential but--given the many sagas of the many devices from the many companies that have come before it--I think it would be beneficial for the company to share more about the business context and overall roadmap to help potential supporters be more informed.
And, of course, it would be wise for potential supporters to exercise a degree of caution consummate to their ability to absorb the impact of their cash or device being "flushed down the toilet", as it were. :)
(Disclosure: While I am very much interested in embedded Linux devices like this I am not likely to purchase The Comet any time soon due to a lack of disposable income.)
