If it doesn’t ever execute Ruby: it cannot be compatible with Homebrew. “Compatible” is doing a bit of work here when it also means “implicitly relies on Homebrew’s CDN, CI, packaging infrastructure and maintainers who keep all this running”.
There’s a new vibe coded Homebrew frontend with partial compatibility and improved speed every few weeks.
Homebrew is working on an official Rust frontend that will actually have full compatibility. Hopefully this will help share effort across the wider ecosystem.
Indeed, everyone's free to do what they want, that's the beauty of open source.
I have zero issues with people vibe coding alternative Homebrew frontends, it's good for the ecosystem for there to be more experimentation.
What I take objection to is when one or more of these happen:
- incorrect compatibility claims are made (e.g. if you're not running Ruby, no post-install blocks in formulae are gonna work)
- synthetic benchmarks are used to demonstrate speed (e.g. running `brew reinstall openssl` in a loop is not a terribly representative case, instead a e.g. cold `brew upgrade` of >10 packages would be). to be clear, I'm sure most of these projects are faster than Homebrew in fair benchmarks too!
- incorrect claims about why Homebrew is slow are made (e.g. "we do concurrent downloads and Homebrew doesn't": true a year ago, not true since 5.0.0 in November 2025)
- it's pitched as a "replacement for Homebrew" rather than "an alternative frontend for Homebrew" when it's entirely reliant on our infrastructure, maintainers, update process, API, etc.
Even on the above: of course people are free to do whatever they want! It's just at least some of the above hinders rather than helps the ecosystem and makes it harder rather than easier for us as a wider open source ecosystem to solve the problem "Homebrew is slow" (which, to be clear, it is in many cases).
Thank you for the answer now it made more clearer, at least for me, on what you meant.
And to be fair, when I was at 4.x version, 90% of the time I was in the happy path, my "being slow" issue was when download speeds got really bad, sometimes caused by my ISP, so my end.
As others mentioned, homebrew is a great piece of software, thank you, not only you but everyone who maintains it.
Thanks for all the hard work. I think brew is what makes the Mac the best “unix” machine choice as far as being stable and not having to take up maintaining my OS as a multi-hour per week hobby. I have been using it daily for three years and have never had any problems.
While I have some vague recollection of homebrew feeling slow in the past I don't know when - I want to say well before Nov 2025. And recently absolutely no such feeling, and great features like auto update handling, etc just working. It's really good stuff.
Python has powered Linux package management to reasonable result for a long time, Python itself is ironic for having tricky platform constraints that ended up being best solved with uv's excellent rust solver. For homebrew I would personally not stress over a Rust frontend - but if it keeps some of the FUD out then maybe it's worth it!
> People are free and probably do this because it is slow. Alternatives often are not a bad thing.
Alternatives are always good but IMO brew is just not something I interact with all that much and to me it's "good enough". It works and does what I expect, although to be fair maybe I'm on the happy path <shrug>.
Good to know! I was doing this with a hacky one-liner but wasn't aware of this flag. I think the sequential build/install process is the agonizing bit though.
I don't see where he said it's a bad thing, or even implied it. As I see it, he did imply that superlatives like THE FASTEST PACKAGE MANAGER aren't worth much in this environment.
Yeah, tbh homebrew is slow as fuck. It literally took 30 minutes to install aws cli on my 2020 mbp. I will happily flock to every new version that's faster.
It is really coll that Homebrew provides a comprehensive enough JSON API to let people build on Homebrew in useful ways without directly running Ruby, despite everything being built in a Ruby DSL. That really does seem like a "best of both worlds" deal, and it's cool that alternative clients can take advantage of that.
I didn't know about the pending, official Rust frontend! That's very interesting.
Yeah I don't know why people are saying that speed doesn't matter. I use Homebrew and it is slow.
It's like yum vs apt in the Linux world. APT (C++) is fast and yum (Python) was slow. Both work fine, but yum would just add a few seconds, or a minute, of little frustrations multiple times a day. It adds up. They finally fixed it with dnf (C++) and now yum is deprecated.
Glad to hear a Rust rewrite is coming to Homebrew soon.
One of the reasons I switched to arch from debian based distros was precisely how much faster pacman was compared to APT -- system updates shouldn't take over half an hour when I have a (multi)gigabit connection and an SSD.
It was mostly precipitated by when containers came in and I was honestly shocked at how fast apk installs packages on alpine compared to my Ubuntu boxes (using apt)
pacman is faster simply because it does less things and it supports less use cases.
For example pacman does not need to validate the system for partial upgrades because those are unsupported on Arch and if the system is borked then it’s yours to fix.
Less charitably, pacman is fast because it's wrong. The dependency resolver is wrong; it fails to find correct answers to dependency resolution problems even when correct answers are available.
* it’s purpose built for mega-sized monorepo models like Google (the same company that created it)
* it’s not at all beginner friendly, it’s complex mishmash of three separate constructs in their own right (build files, workspace setup, starlark), which makes it slow to ramp new engineers on.
* even simple projects require a ton of setup
* requires dedicated remote cache to be performant, which is also not trivial to configure
* requires deep bazel knowledge to troubleshoot through its verbose unclear error logs.
Because of all that, it’s extremely painful to use for anything small/medium in scale.
> dnf < 5 was still performing similarly to yum (and it was also implemented in python)
I'm perhaps not properly understanding your comment. If the algorithmic changes were responsible for the improved speed, why did the Python version of dnf perform similarly to yum?
Because dnf4 used the same dependency resolution as yum but they revamped it in dnf5 (it was initially supposed to be a whole new package manager with a different name)
> Yeah I don't know why people are saying that speed doesn't matter. I use Homebrew and it is slow
Because how often are you running it where it's not anything but a opportunity to take a little breather in a day? And I do mean little, the speedups being touted here are seconds.
I have the same response to the obsession with boot times, how often are you booting your machine where it is actually impacting anything? How often are you installing packages?
Do you have the same time revulsion for going to the bathroom? Or getting a glass of water? or basically everything in life that isn't instantaneous?
I would guess this change builds on the existing json endpoints for package metadata but that the Ruby DSL is remaining intact.
I think how to marry the Ruby formulas and a Rust frontend is something the Homebrew devs can figure out and I'm interested to see where it goes, but I don't really care whether Ruby "goes away" from Homebrew in the end or not. It's a lovely language, so if they can keep it for their DSL but improve client performance I think that's great.
Is Ruby really the speed bottleneck in Homebrew? I would assume it would be due to file operations (and download operations), not choice of programming language.
Largely agree, though some things are notably difficult in some languages. Things like true concurrency for example didn’t come as naturally in Ruby because of the global interpreter lock. Of course there are third party libs, and workarounds though. Newer versions of Ruby bring it more natively, and as we’ve seen, Homebrew has adopted and makes use of that experimentally for a while, and the default relatively recently.
I can’t say that’s the only reason it’s slow of course. I’m on the “I don’t use it often enough for it to be a problem at all” side of the fence.
> Homebrew is working on an official Rust frontend that will actually have full compatibility.
When you say "Rust frontend", is the vision that Homebrew's frontend would eventually transition to being a pure Rust project — no end-user install of portable-ruby and so forth?
If so (ignore everything below if not):
I can see how that would work for most "boring" formulae: formula JSON gets pre-baked at formula publish time; Rust frontend pulls it; discovers formula is installable via bottle; pulls bottle; never needs to execute any Ruby.
But what happens in the edge-cases there — formulae with no bottles, Ruby `post_install` blocks, and so forth? (And also, how is local formula development done?)
Is the ultimate aim of this effort, to build and embed a tiny little "Formula Ruby DSL" interpreter into the Rust frontend, that supports just enough of Ruby's syntax + semantics to execute the code that appears in practice in the bodies of real formulae methods/blocks? (I personally think that would be pretty tractable, but I imagine you might disagree.)
We will never be 100% Rust an 0% Ruby. It’s possible that 99% of users end up never running any Ruby, though. It’ll still be needed for local development and our CI. We’re optimising for speeding up the 99% case as much as possible.
I appreciate the push for an official rust frontend. I've personally been migrating (slowly) to using nix to manage my Mac's software, but there are a ton of limitations which lead me to rely on homebrew anyway. The speed ups will be appreciated.
> I appreciate the push for an official rust frontend
Why? I think I am seriously starting to contract as case of FOMO. I feel like Rust is rapidly gaining territory everyday. I mean, that's fine and all, I suppose. I have never used it, so I have no real opinions on the language.
> Compatible” is doing a bit of work here when it also means “implicitly relies on Homebrew’s CDN, CI, packaging infrastructure and maintainers who keep all this running”.
This is literally what "compatible" means, how else did you expect then to frame it?
That is great news! Would be even more awesome if it was being ported to a more approachable language like Go or Zig, or somehow rearchitected in Ruby, but I take it that ship has sailed long ago. Ruby -> Rust is a brutal move.
Wait a minute, Homebrew is slow? I thought most of the time it takes for me is downloading and installing. I haven't noticed slowdowns anywhere else, even for the ones mentioned.
> Homebrew is working on an official Rust frontend that will actually have full compatibility. Hopefully this will help share effort across the wider ecosystem.
In it's current form, homebrew is amazing. It's not that slow and recent updates have made it really good to use. May I know the reasons for a Rust rewrite?
Is this still true since they swapped to distributing binaries rather than building from source on each install? It's been years since I last installed something from homebrew that built from source, so something that could install the same binaries would be compatible from my standpoint.
That said, it's also been a while since I've really had any huge complaints about brew's speed. I use Linux on my personal machines, and the difference in experience with my preferred Linux distro's package manager and brew used to be laughable. To their credit, nowadays, brew largely feels "good enough", so I honestly wouldn't even argue for porting from Ruby based on performance needs at this point. I suspect part of the motivation might be around concerns about relying on the runtime to be available. Brew's use of Ruby comes from a time when it was more typical for people to rely on the versions of Python and Ruby that were shipped with MacOS, but nowadays a lot of people are probably more likely to use tooling from brew itself to manage those, and making everything native avoids the need to bootstrap from an existing runtime.
It can revert back to building from source under some cases and I still think even when doing binary downloads it will execute install hooks which are ruby inside the recipe
I would agree with you that probably Ruby itself is probably not the bottleneck (except maybe for depsolving cuz that’s cpu bound)
Sorry, examples of what? Package managers that present themselves as replacements for other package managers? Or package managers that aren't compatible with the registry they're supposed to be compatible with? Your use of scare quotes is confusing.
pnmp, npm, yard all have different lockfiles, all use the same registry format (and the same registry itself), all try to stay compatible in other ways.
You won't be having situation where one uses yarn and someone uses pnpm on the same project tho.
There’s a new vibe coded Homebrew frontend with partial compatibility and improved speed every few weeks.
Homebrew is working on an official Rust frontend that will actually have full compatibility. Hopefully this will help share effort across the wider ecosystem.