Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin
Luke AFB changes refueling truck color, mitigates F-35 shutdowns (af.mil)
25 points by protomyth on Dec 7, 2014 | hide | past | favorite | 12 comments


IMO another example of how the F-35 is an over specified, over engineered and expensive turkey.

And here is a comment by someone who knows a lot more than I do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxDSiwqM2nw


Pierre Sprey didn't design the F-16 and really doesn't know that much about the F-35. A large amount of his comments on the F-35 are factually incorrect.

Fuel temperature is an important parameter for an aircraft because excessive vapors in the tanks can be problematic.

Other jet fighters have fuel temperature warnings (eg. F/A-18 is triggered above 65 degrees Celsius.) so your claim of "over engineered" F-35 is misguided.

Remember TWA 800? The fuel in the center tank vaporized and the jet exploded.

The Luke AFB crews are being appropriately cautious and implementing an appropriate temporary solution.


From cursory reading about the aircraft, there seems to be a lot of criticism of it. Can you summarise specifically what was factually incorrect and misguided?

The f-35 Looks like a jack of all trades, but a master of none.


I haven't watched the video recently, but I'm familiar with Peirre Spey. Spey championed the Light Weight Fighter concept (which became the F-16) but derided the very things that made the F-16 a success; AIM-7 Sparrow BVR missiles, multi-role strike capability.

The big factual error is comparing the F-35 turning performance to an airshow F-16. An F-16 with external tanks and combat loads (missiles and bombs) doesn't turn as well an F-35.

The other big factual error is that Perre Spey seems to confuse program unit cost or total lifecycle cost with flyaway unit cost when comparing alternatives. The Pentagon demanded an analysis of the F-35 lifecycle cost, but without comparing it to contemporary aircraft like the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. An F/A-18E costs around $72m Unit Flyaway Cost, and an F-35A is about $95m in full rate production.

The F-35 has considerable advantages like 360 degree EODAS, which enables off-boresight missile shots, while avoiding hostile fire. It might not be a classic Mach 2+ interceptor like the F-15 or F-22, but it'll do fine in a dogfight.


Appreciate the detailed response.


I am just a little confused why it is different for the F-35, but it is an interesting story for the paint:

"The white paint is special because it is a solar polyurethane enamel that reflects the heat of the sun's rays. Interestingly, after dropping off the first truck to be painted, the 56th LRS learned it is not the color that reflects the heat."

"The painter said it did not have to be a white color, so we are going to send one of the four vehicles to get painted green, if possible. We will then compare temperatures between the green and white trucks."


It may be related to the fuel being factored into the thermal design (as coolant) as well as used as a store of energy. If so it sounds like the F-35's design is less forgiving than the other aircraft they have at that base.


Luke has been a F-16 base for some time.


The F35 uses the fuel as hydraulic fluid, too. That may have something to do with it.


As long as there is no war in any hot, desert countries, we should be right...


"This is the short-term goal to cool the fuel for the F-35; however, the long-term fix is to have parking shades for the refuelers," Resch said.

But what color are they going to paint the shades?


As a Phoenix native this totally makes sense. Our summers average 110 degrees. We have our sweaters on if it somehow dips to the 90s.




Consider applying for YC's Summer 2026 batch! Applications are open till May 4

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: